ménage á moi

[tsukinofaerii]

Advance warning: this is going to be seriously tl;dr and tmi. Something's been bugging me for a week, and I've finally come to grips with my thoughts enough to post about it.

For the people who go "oh, she's on another social justice trip, move along"... Well, move along. (I'm pretty this is all of you. Has my flist no interest in serious things?) If you're embarrassed about masturbation (especially your own if you're a girl), talking about masturbation or in any way hung up on masturbation... well, this one is about you. And me, obviously.

Ooh, wait, I said the m-word. Three times! Scary. Actually, this is embarrassing me to type, and I'm kind of positive that I'm going to have to fight not to private-lock it when I'm done. Which is kind of the problem.

Starting from the beginning, last week I ended up in Borders with spare time on my hands. This being me, I ended up in the sex section. Well, after going through the fantasy and manga areas. I took an interesting cameraphone shot of the religion signs which happen to be right next door to the sexual non-fiction. (It goes "Religion, Christianty, Religion, General Religion" -- wtf?) On search for inspiration, or possibly just to make the woman browsing the religion eyes glare at me, I started digging through the shelves.

I noticed a pattern immediately. Can we say couple-friendly? Almost every book I found was for people in relationships. How to please him/her, about a dozen different Kama Sutra variations, kink guides... I mean, whoa. Talk about writing material. But since slash has very little to do with real homosexuality (we seem to ignore that gay couples have anal sex about as much as hetero couples do--not often), I started looking at books for little ol' moi. And there was a near-complete dearth. Couples, couples, couples... But I'm very much not in a position for partnered sex right now. So I dug. And dug. And dug. Eventually I found Getting Off by Jamye Waxman and bought it.

I'm going to be completely honest here: I bought it pretty much for the shock value. It was going to be a coffee-table type of thing. My family and friends tend to regard me as a pervert because I take pride in my lack of shame about sex. They know I'm a slasher, mostly know that I'm ambisexual (there's just some things you don't discuss with your 80+ grandparents who have heart problems), and I'm known to be obnoxiously persistent about many topics. It's a long-running hobby of mine to re-enforce this view of me, at least partly because I enjoy their embarrassment and partly because I feel it makes it easier to have certain conversations. I fully intend to pull aside various younger cousins as soon as they get old enough and give them the "be safe and don't be ashamed" talk.

After I bought my book, I still had a bit of a wait, so I settled in to browse it in order to stave off the boredom. It was actually a more interesting read than I'd thought it would be! The first chapter is the author's personal story, which is a good way to get me into a book. I got a couple of chapters in before my ride/cousin was ready to go. Of course, as soon as I got in the car I started in on my new book, pointedly snuggling down in my seat to read while she drove and talked with her girlfriend. As her girlfriend is a co-worker of mine and I enjoy poking them about the couple-dom thing, I interrupted frequently and ended up promising to lend out the book when I was done.

My cousin immediately commented that it might be useful applied to her and her girlfriend. (Well, the comment was dirtier than that, but my response was hardly and better.) After a week of too-deep thoughts, I'm starting to realize that her non-sequiter has been bothering me. There's nothing wrong with solo sex, even when you're in a relationship. Why did she immediately default to a couple thing when the book is pretty pointedly about what a single girl can do to herself?

After reading through three-fourths of Getting Off over the past week, I've really been thinking. It covers the history (mostly very, very frightening) of female masturbation, the social (un)acceptablity... The works. Why is it that guys are expected to jack off, but girls are supposed to do the exact opposite? Skippy's List has an amusing story about someone caught with his pants down. I doubt a girl would even have been in that situation to start with, not out of any innate sense of propriety, but out of humiliation. But we've come a very, very long way in even just 50 years. At least women no longer have forced clitoridectomies in order to prevent them from masturbating. It's forward movement, and it made me happy that I'm able to live in such changing times.

But it also made me consider my own hang-ups. (Yes, I have them! Stop laughing!) I got the "don't touch that!" response as a little girl. For the most part, my mom's pretty liberal. For the most part I kept thinking "thank goodness for mommy" during the break-down of the Victorian era, but masturbation was definitely one of the things I learned to think of as dirty as a kid. Now I'm conscious of it, but the issue exists. I'm still dealing with it. Being in a "yay sexual liberation" frame of mind, I tried to discuss it with my mother. I mean, that's supposed to help, right? It was embarrassing and awkward, but I put on my brave face and soldiered on. The conversation went as follows:

Me: I picked up this awesome book about masturbation over the weekend.
Mom: Oh?
Me: I can't believe how uptight some people are; I feel really lucky that you taught me to value the human body.
Mom: Well, it's a thing of beauty... [ramble on grandmother and life drawing and nude sketches]
Me: Yeah, Nana was awesome. She caught me in all sorts of weird things as a kid! Speaking of--
Mom: WOW, my garden is growing really well!
Me: ....

This is another pattern I've been noticing. I start talking, and people dodge the point or say they don't care and move on without me. (Which pisses me off, a little.) NO ONE will have a straight-forward conversation about solo sex with me. Even people who normally chat with my about sex like it's wallpaper have managed to avoid the bullet. I'm not even talking nitty-gritty details. Just mentioning it gets the conversation instantly uncomfortable. I am uncomfortable right now, and it's bugging the hell out of me. I don't like having a topic that makes me squirm.

So this post? Is all about me forcing myself through being embarrassed. And I hope that anyone else reading it take a good long look in the mirror and considers her own hang-ups. (Even more hopefully, I'd like her to be able to celebrate her lack of them!) There's something wrong with a world where it's easier to discuss hardcore gay bondage than a couple of fingers and a clitoris. Why in the world has female sexuality been compressed into a strict "two or more only" zone?

Comments

[moontear.livejournal.com]

Girlie girl, I will have a conversation about solo sex with you! I mean, it still embarrasses me from time to time, and I'm not like -- in the habit of going around talking to people about it in like... every day conversation, lol, but I can talk to you about it if you need someone to. :3 *shrugs*

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

(hugs) Thanks! I actually mostly want to talk about the social issues around it (and kind of about the "urg, thin walls" issue, but that's a complaint more than a discussion), but it's frustrating that everyone goes quiet as soon as it comes up. I almost want to stand in the street and yell "it's okay for a girl to masturbate!", except I'd be embarrassed to. oO Which bugs me because I don't mind singing "to sodomy, it's between God and me" in public. WTF self?

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

Huh. That's true. My only hang-up is that I'm actually a pretty shy person; talking about such things when directed to me is embarrassing because of that. I grew up with a pretty liberal family; they're all pretty religious (Although my dad is the least religious of all of them; he was the first to know I'm agnostic, not Christian like they are, and doesn't mind at all), however, and that can raise some complications.

But as I said, they're liberal. *Shrugs* I'd just rather die then discuss something personal with them, is all. XD

I'd talk about it, if you wanted. *Shrugs* It's conversation, and better yet, information as well. (Sometimes it shocks me how little my friends know about things like that. And I'm the only one who isn't interested. *Rolls eyes*) Info is info; I don't care how or who I get it from.

....*Blinks* Of course there's something majorly wrong with this world. What's your point? We already knew that. XD

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

But what about if it's not a personal discussion? It's not like we really need to sit down and say, "Mommy, when you do it this way does it feel better than that way?" I mean, even trying to discuss it in terms of high school sex ed seems to earn me loads of silence. And I'd never thought of masturbation as something belonging in sex ed before this week, but it would make sense! If kids are going to do it have sex, better to have them masturbate than risk pregnancy, right? Hell, it would have made my high school life [and jr high life ^^;] a lot safer, if it hadn't been "for losers". I got lucky when I screwed up and didn't catch anything. 1:4 aren't. :\

A lot of people are shy, but even theoretical and completely impersonal gets weird. I'd be happy to answer any questions... but yeah. oO Awkward and uncomfortable. But conversations need to be had (even if they're making people ask if I'm okay because I'm blushing so much right now!), or else we end up with people thinking it's safe to share toys or that the only "right" way to get off is with a partner. And then when that partner can't do it for you, all sorts of guilt and stress just make things worse.

I think the problem with the things being wrong with the world is that I get an insane urge to make it better. But I'm only one person. :| So it's hard to see that impact. I guess I just need to have faith that there is an impact.

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

XD That's hilarious. I took sex ed in 8th grade; people either laughed, or started blushing like mad. (And I was like, "Okay... can we get to something I don't know about?" Imagine my surprise that I, of all people, knew more than them. Silly middle-schoolers.) Yup; very lucky. (Count your blessings, instead of sheep.....sorry, I've seen White Christmas too many times. ^^; )

*Frowns thoughtfully* You make a lot of good points..... (You should write these things down and publish 'em! :D) People really don't have much common sense, unfortunately -- or if they do, it's drowned out by all sorts of pressures and stress. Or, I suppose, personal issues. *Shrugs*

....*Twitch* There people go again, saying, "I'm only one person..." I'm really sick of people saying that. Someone I've always thought to be quite intelligent said the same thing in bio class. Everyone at my table was smart, so my jaw hit the floor when she said that about something someone said in a video we were watching (Oh, I do love that video; it was all about how we're ruining our Mother Earth, and although she'll survive, we're killing our own race. Love it.).

I very nearly started a....very, er, loud discussion. My teacher almost had to break it up; we were causing quite a disturbance.

People don't realize; it isn't they themself that may always make the biggest impact. Sometimes, they do one simple thing that paves the path for someone else's fame: they kick the ball and get it rolling. If just one person agrees with you, understands; what have you -- then that person will in turn tell others, and then more, and more -- until we begin a revolution. An impact is an impact; we may have to fight like mad against whatever bonds society has thrown on us, but we can do it in the end! We just can't give up!

.......Urk. x_x I sound like some crazy speech-maker. (I do have a tendency to get pretty passionate...*Grimaces*)

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sex ed was... odd. I got it in sixth grade, and even then I was like "tl;dr, can we get to something interesting?" Of course, Arizona has the "these are your ovaries, they produce eggs, no I can't tell you how babies are made MOVING ON NOW" type of ed.

Lots of people have. :| I don't even have a degree in sexual studies - just a loud mouth and a tendancy to push things. ^^; But hopefully the next President will see about that damn abstinence-only bit of stupidity.

I know what you mean about the "only one person" thing actually. I only mentioned it because it's kind of depressing knowing that you can attend rallies and vote and write your congressman... and nothing comes of it. It's hard to see how I am changing things, even though I know I am. It's just... I'm a quick results kind of girl. I want to fix things. I don't like looking at a problem and knowing that it's going to take a while and even then might not be resolved in my lifetime. (headdesk) And this is such a simple problem too. One generation and it could be gone. *sigh*

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

...They shouldn't call it sex ed then, since it's more like a health class. *Puzzled*
I went to a private school during sex ed. We actually had a really, really good class; it was combined with a Health class. Just part of what they taught us. So they had this woman who works at teenage pregnancy centers or whatever come in and help teach us. She stressed that our bodies are our own, and that we shouldn't let anyone tell us when we can and can't have sex. She said that it was something that felt crazy good, yes, but that we should also be very careful about when and who we have sex with, because it shouldn't be meaningless, and there was also always chances of STD's. But I like how she was so liberal. ^^ She also talked a great deal about hygiene, so she had me rootin' for her. XD

We had slide shows on STD's; how they looked, their symptoms, etc. Of course, not all. Some of them would've fainted if we had done that, lol. THe girls went outside and downstairs when it was the guy' side of STD's; ditto the guys for the girl's. Some of the weaker girls (I don't mean mentally or anything) were actually throwing up. I was, like, the only one taking notes like we were supposed to. XD

*Laughs* If I were president, I'd just change how they taught sex ed classes, and I'd teach it sooner then most places do (please, highschool and middle school? Few are that innocent by then!). *Shrugs* There's so much people need to know, and it really is a lot better to learn in from the right resources then result to other methods, which may include experimenting on your own. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that so many kids don't realize so much of what they should know. I could care less if they have sex; as long as they have the knowledge they need.

^^; Yeah, I'm the type of person who wants things done my way when I say so. (Boy have I learned patience about that!) Hence, I get into lots of... colorful debates.

But I can be quieted with the knowledge it will may an impact, just...not when and how I wanted, perhaps. But then I can look back over the years, and I realize that sometimes, it's those kinds of victories that makes those little victories so damn wonderful.

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Read up on abstinence-only ed if you've got time and feel like going "D:" for a while. It's what I got (maybe I would have gotten more if I'd gone to a normal high school?), and it's pretty much what most people in the USA get. It's really, truly sad that most of what I first knew about sex I picked up from people other than knowledgeable adults. It's even sadder that what I did pick up from the adults was usually inaccurate or shame-inducing. oO Lucky me fandom taught me to research things after the first "wait, anal without lube? that doesn't sound right..." moment.

The USA is made of fail in this regard.

XD We got the slide-show too. My parents wanted to pull me out of it and I was like, "No way, do you have any idea of the things I can write with that sort of fodder?" My dad wasn't very happy about that... :* It was a really small group of seniors (only three of us; the other senior opted out), so no throwing up or anything. That happened when we say a live (recorded) birth. o_O Talk about never having kids, after seeing that one. I may not have thrown up, but it was closer than I like to admit.

There's this... insanity that "if we tell them how to do it safely, they'll do it", which the US has spent the last couple of decades proving wrong. *sigh* I hope the next president cleans up the mess, but it depends on a lot of factors. No matter what, I doubt masturbation is going to go on the female education list, because "good girls don't do that!" The average loss of virginity in the US is 15 and a half-ish, with our rates of teen STDs and pregnancy sky-high. The Netherlands, with their comprehensive sex ed programs and safety-first, sex-positive policies? Average 17 and a half-ish with incredibly low rates of teen pregnancy and STDs. The pattern repeats kind of obviously.

Again. USA = FAIL.

I get depressed about it, but it doesn't stop me from doing what I can. :\ Even the most awesome, helpful plan is still a plan until it's put into action. I'd rather do something small and put up with the miasma of perceived lack of accomplishment than go for pie in the sky goals that don't get off the ground enough to do anything at all.

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

XD I don't even want to look up abstinence-only programs. I'd start all sorts of arguments with people if I did. *Shudders*

SENIORS?! OUCH. We saw it at a much better age.
We saw about three recorded births, too. *Nods* Three of the girls were groaning all over the place in pain before they finally managed to convince my teacher to turn off the stupid video -- then they were excused from the next two. One was an ordinary birth; the other was a birth without the painkiller, and... I can't remember the last video. *Shrugs* I wasn't paying attention, I was drawing on my arm. x3 (I distinctly remember mentally complaining to myself about what wimps these people were, and how I wished the women in the videos would just shut up already.)

...."Good boys" don't do it either. Great! Now that we've established we all know how to lie, can we skip to the point? *Smiles innocently*
*Nods* My friend lost her virginity recently. I believe she's 15... although she may be 16... I'm not sure. I know it's a 6-month difference from her cousin, Cris, but I don't know if she's younger or older. I think she's older.... *Shrugs*

W00t Netherlands on smarts! *Cheers*

......One of my favorite words, in less than a week. YES! (Miasma. ^^; People just never seem to use it! e_e)

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

We were such a small school, we had to wait for permission to do it. (shrug) Older schools just sort of take care of all of that at once. We were developing!

Don't forget it'll give you hairy palms and lesions. D:

See, I think 15 is too young to lose it, and I lost it earlier than that. But there is pressure, and while usually I think people tend to use peer pressure as an excuse, in this case I know it's there. And so it's like... Hello, social issue here! STOP IGNORING IT.

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

....*Blinks* Uhm, all my schools have been small. I think Leto got up to 2,300 students last year. About that.

....*Twitches*

Yup. I think, "it's your body, but that doesn't give you an excuse to be stupid."

Unfortunately, no one listens to common sense these days. If they did, I'd be World Leader. XD And you? My Right Hand Maiden.

Or possible my Left Hand Maiden.

It's more creative. *nodnodnod*

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

lol My school topped out at 30. Total. All grades. *pwns*

Well, the thing is, peer pressure is blamed for all sorts of stupid things. Drugs, alcohol, sex, anime (srs!), video games, violence... And I definitely recall that the only peer pressure that ever really got me was the sex. It was everywhere, and everyone knew that if you didn't do it, you weren't cool. (shrug) Everything else is... just sort of there or not. If you weren't for it, then everyone shrugged. So why is sex getting the pass while the adults push the idea that everyone is out to make you a druggie?

Left Hand Maiden. XD Almost accurate.

[blinddeciever.livejournal.com]

...O_O You sure that's an actual school, now? XD

Wait. Video games and anime, peer pressure? *blinks* I never thought of them as such... but I can see how they would be, to some people. I honestly enjoy them, so...*Shrugs* As of yet, I can't recall peer pressure having got to me. *Thinks* Not that I can think of, at least.

Because people have been doing sex for years when they shouldn't. However, how long exactly have drugs been really known and illegal?
History, dahling, history.

Would you really rather I call you my Left Hand Matron? Like all titles, it doesn't have to be accurate; just pretty. XD

[nyreak.livejournal.com]

I don't know why the world is so set on that as far as women are concerned, but it's ridiculous. If a woman isn't in a sexual relationship with someone else, they're just supposed to get no satisfaction at all until they find someone to do so with? So it's better to find a one-nighter than to do it yourself? Absurd.

And if a woman is in a sexual relationship, she's only supposed to get any sort of pleasure if she's doing it with that other person? That might would work for a man, as they almost always manage to enjoy themselves, but even if it's a pretty regular thing, not all women are even able to reach orgasm during sex. I can, and am lucky enough to have a husband that makes sure I do before he does (if TMI, my apologies :D), but... when I do it myself, it is almost always more intense, and I don't have to be all cuddly or take a lot of time if I don't want to. Yeah, I am often a 'just do it, make me happy, and go on about whatever we were doing' kind of person.

As the mother of a little girl, I need to actually look into this more so that I can figure out the best way to discuss it with her. My mom was definitely in the 'it's dirty to touch yourself' state of mind, and I don't want my little girl to grow up thinking that. Thanks for bringing that up, though, I hadn't really thought about that before now.

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

You are lucky! I know most people can't orgasm from just sex, and men unfortunately tend to be not all-thumbs when it comes to taking care of that. Or any finger. :\ Penetration ≠ Everything.

There's this... weird modern mythology that once a girl is in a relationship, that's it. Her whole life (especially her sexual life) revolves around whoever it is. If she's not in a relationship, she's supposed to want to be in one. And if she doesn't want one, then she's weird. Guys get pretty much the exact opposite treatment. I guess masturbation just sort of gets caught up in all of that. And it's really, really bugging me.

I'm reminded of my sex ed class in college. I took it because I knew I needed formal education. Sometimes just reading a book doesn't cut it. The instructor asked the parents in the room what they would do if they caught their toddler or baby masturbating. The consensus was "ask where s/he'd learned it and tell them no". News to me was that they do it on their own. I guess it makes sense, but think of how early that sort of conditioning must start, if kids are being told it's dirty before they're even potty trained?

Jocelyn's lucky to have you as a mother! :D I'm glad I got some gears turned for you.

[possibilities.livejournal.com]

I worked with disabled kids, and one of the girls had a "problem" in that she touched herself almost constantly. Her mom talked to us staff the first day about it. "Tell her it's okay because it feels nice, but it's private and not okay in class." We had a little bed thing in our (rather large) bathroom, and we let her go in there once a day for some private time. It was no different than the kid who loved to jump wildly - it was okay, but not always okay right then; he got daily time on the trampoline to have fun in an appropriate environment to it.

I really think something similar should be allowed for all kids. It's okay, but it's not a public activity (rather like more-people sex).

[lyakahime.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting. I didn't realize until I read your post that I would be embarassed to discuss masturbation. It's such a deeply personal thing that it's like sharing a part of my soul, and that makes me twitch.

As for why your cousin immediately defaulted to couple thing, I have to say that I can understand why. Disclaimer, not all couples are like this, but there's a certain stage in the relationship where everything is about being +1. Like, your brain chemistry rewires so that you go through your day asking "How does that apply to me and my S.O.? Should I tell him/her about that? What would he/she think about that issue? Is this useful to us?" One of the traditional benefits of couplehood is sex, so when sex comes up, even someone who doesn't normally live with the +1 rule will immediately start thinking about their S.O. I mean, you mention sex, and people start thinking about having it. And if you're in a relationship, you start thinking about having it with someone. And often, if you're NOT in a relationship, you just start FANTASIZING about having it with someone- say, Colin Farrell. (yow.)

It's a little odd because couples definitely still masturbate, but focus mentally on joint sex. I guess that's because joint sex is where the most room for improvement. After masturbating once a day on average for seven years straight, I've got it pretty much down to a science. Long, slow, teasing, immediate, hard, soft, however I want it, I can have it. But my S.O. isn't quite to the magic 100% results class yet. And joint sex is very different for girls- much less focus on the clitoris!- so I'm still learning the techniques there. So that's where my focus is. Maybe that's why.

The hard part about masturbation is the shame, not the mechanics. Once you sit down to do it it's pretty easy to make the sparklies happen, so the problem is shame, which compounds itself by being hard to discuss and thereby eliminate. The problem with joint sex is making sure a good time is had by all, and so that's where the discussion focuses- and there CAN be a discussion about that, so there is.

::shrugs:: My thoughts :)

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting. I didn't realize until I read your post that I would be embarassed to discuss masturbation. It's such a deeply personal thing that it's like sharing a part of my soul, and that makes me twitch.

I guess it's just one of those things we don't realize we're embarrassed about until it comes up? I mean... I've always thought of myself as pretty vocal and liberal. But this one makes me want to dodge a bullet, and I didn't know until I had to make myself discuss it. Social conditioning runs deep. :|

there's a certain stage in the relationship where everything is about being +1.

You know, I didn't think about that aspect. They've only been together for a few months. They're still in that moony place where "freckles like tiny droplets of sun" seems like good poetry.

See, I understand why the mechanics might not really be up for casual conversations in 95% of sexual conversation arenas, since it's a really individual thing. I like A, you probably prefer B; not much to discuss. Where as partner sex, there's another bit of the equation and that part can frequently make your own part go "oO?! Someone tell me what's going on!".

But I like discussing the social aspects, how it relates to writing (especially the weirdness that is Sora-Roxas canon, and I kind of want to write Kairi masturbating in reference to Sora/Riku and "I don't really need them anyways" now that I think about it). I want to talk about why I can't talk about it comfortably. Even the source of said issue keeps changing the topic on me. :| How does it relate to online activities and how slashers and kink memes are viewed? Internet social-psyche issues about how female-fandom has reacted to this over time and developed into a place where we're more comfortable writing male-on-male guro than discussing female masturbation even within a purely fictional context.

If Sora can have a half dozen fics where the whole plots is that he faps over Kairi/Riku/Roxas/Axel/MICKEY, why do none of the girls seem to have the same?

Just... grah. I've found something I want to discuss, at least in part to make myself more comfortable with discussing it, and I'm tired of people randomly changing the subject. x.X

(Does the anony-mouse internet factor have anything to do with why I'm getting replies? Or is it just that people online are more open-minded? I'm tending to think the former, because I have yet to corner my mother and say "stop dodge and talk to me!" on this.)

[lyakahime.livejournal.com]

How does it relate to online activities and how slashers and kink memes are viewed? Internet social-psyche issues about how female-fandom has reacted to this over time and developed into a place where we're more comfortable writing male-on-male guro than discussing female masturbation even within a purely fictional context.

This is actually something I've thought about, because you wouldn't believe the looks I get from friends sometimes. If guys express a wish to see lesbian porn everyone nods like it's completely normal, but a girl interested in gay (male) porn? A WITCH! BURN HER!

But seriously, no one writes fic to duplicate a real life experience. Which is why girls don't write fics about girls masturbating. We don't need to. If I want to simulate the experience of masturbation, I actually masturbate. And if that's what I want to be thinking about and focusing on, I have no need of fanfiction. So I don't go read it, and no one writes it (because people write what they want to read). If I DO turn to fanfiction for a buzz, it means I want to fantasize. Okay, what do I want to fantasize about? Me soloing? Nope, got that going on in living color. Me sleeping with a guy? I'll just drag my fiance to the bedroom, problem solved. Two guys sleeping together? Gotta have the fic.

And it's easier to discuss something when you're not personally involved. Let's be honest here; a lot of us are imagining ourselves swapped in for Sora or Riku when we write about yaoi. But they get to act as proxies for us, relieving us of responsibility for acknowledging ownership of those acts or emotions. That in turn frees us to discuss them. If we were talking about masturbation in RL somewhere, I'd be studiously memorizing the wallpaper when I wasn't cracking bad jokes as a distraction. If I talk about a guy masturbating, I'm probably sharing girly giggles like in one of those chick flicks. There could be hugging.

Plus, there are just two guys. Two guys! If we find one guy hot, why is it so mysterious that we'd find two even hotter?

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Wow, this actually makes sense. (I still kind of want to give Kairi the feminine empowerment thing. Which is odd, because usually any kind of empowerment involving Kairi seems to need a high voltage and electrodes. Perhaps in Rerise.) It also explains why Sora/etc get the masturbation shots--still fantasy, just another angle.

Though, considering some of the stuff in your inbox right now, I'm not sure what kind of awesome/freakish it would be to own up to that. Yay fantasy ≠ reality!

(There would probably be pillow fights too, if we're going chick flick standard. In skimpy lingerie that's actually not much fun to sleep in, which proves that the director has probably never tried.)

Now, another interesting thing to ponder. How does female fandom fit in with the pretty recent sexual liberation and feminism movements? Not feminism of the early 20th century, but of the latter. Thinking back on my mental (and highly suspect, I admit) timelines, it sort of looks like they evolved together. At least on this one, I'm pretty sure which came first, since subculture tends to be reflective of culture in many ways. But it's remotely possible that fandom in some way reinforced the sexual liberation movement, by giving women an outlet that only skirted acceptable. (I'm thinking the original bandom, like Elvis and the Beetles and such.)

XD That last line is the exact logic I've used. For some reason, people don't seem to buy it. One asshat actually told me that it's okay when girls are gay, because it's about emotions and love. But with guys it's just about fucking, and that makes it bad. oO; To this day, I wonder if he's actually ever had sex at all, because that's first-grade logic and an astounding lack of knowledge about the human sex drive.

[caer-swan.livejournal.com]

I was un/fortunate enough not to have to deal with any of that sex business until college, where I went to a liberal place full of lesbians! XD

But really, a lot of my comfort with the word masturbation has to do with the fact that on of my best friends actually sells sex toys, She's an Athena's Home Novelties rep. :)

I would recommend The Clitoral Truth... if I remember if it was any good. I remember stumbling across it when I was a library aide at the university. ^_^ It has nice illustrations?

Re: Clitoridectomies: Our culture may not have them any more, but they still go in in other parts of the world. :(

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

A liberal lesbian college FTW. \o/

That must be an awesome job. o.o! And an awesome friend--somehow I don't think many people could get past the cultural conditioning enough to help other people with their own, which I imagine is in the job description's fine print. I know that the last time I picked up a toy I was embarrassed as all get-out, and the sales guy was very helpful. People like that rock.

(snatches the book suggestion) I am always up for new reading. Even if I can't take it with me to work. Well, technically I suppose I could, but I doubt my bosses would ever look at me the same. I'm the "nice, quiet one".

Re: Clitoridectomies: I know. ;-;

[caer-swan.livejournal.com]

Oh! And you may have figured out how shameless I am. I once did a poll about the uses of dominant hands in regards to masturbation... *g*

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Really? You may be one of my more recent heroes.

... What were the results?