This. I think a lot of us are reacting that way, to judge by the outpouring of rage that that one post where the poster declared that slash was anti-gay and that all bisexual slashers were lying liars who lie got (one of the only times I've ever knowingly abused anon commenting, because I'd have had to be poltie and respectful and not use cuss words if I were signed in).
Oi, geeze, that is exactly the post I'm not linking to in the main meta. I started to reply there, then put down the keyboard and backed away before I erupted into rage all over someone else's journal. (Other people were already doing it for me, much better than I could.) That post and the comments she left hit so many buttons I was close to incoherent.
And it's happening now, when slashers objecting to bisexual erasure, asexual erasure, to the gender binary implicit in much of the debate, etc. are being labelled as derailing. And when people say that things like paradox-dragon's post are derailing, and are issues that need to be put on hold for later...
This is where I go "bwuh?" and have to wonder if my idea of netiquette (or LJ-specific netiquette, at least) is completely warped. I always thought that individual posts were their own conversations, so to speak. So taking your tangential-but-interesting thoughts back to your own space was the exact opposite of derailing, since you're not interrupting someone else's convo. Everything that's going on is a web of link-hopping and discussion, but I've never considered it one my amorphous blob of conversation--especially since that sort of think is akin to yelling in the middle of a mob.
In the case of not-cisgendered-lesbian-or-gay-man erasure (let's face it, if someone isn't "mainstream" gay, they get ignored), it's important that the conversations happen, even if they're sparked off of something else. There's never a good time to put yourself forward to be noticed, and being told to sit back and wait for a turn is... yeah, rage button is a good term for it. Bad enough to get that from the heteronormative side ("just confused/curious"), but getting it from people who really should know better is too much.
I was told point-blank that until I decide whether I'm straight or lesbian, I'm not welcome. One jerk doesn't make an entire group, but that pretty well set my tone. :\ I have fandom, thankfully, which is more than supportive enough.
I don't know that tis is a problem in fanfic, where the characters have to follow canon at least a little, but I don't know what I would do about that if I went pro. Write historical fiction and fantasy novels about girls instead of modern-setting m/m stuff, I guess (original fiction, after all, is pretty much designed for exorcising all one's Mary Sue impulses).
I think that I've actually seen a few fics that took canonically presumed-straight characters and tried to make them fit into "gay culture" (which I still haven't seen defined). I remember laughing loudly and pressing the back button. It was so OOC I couldn't take it seriously. There's only so much that can be done within the confines of a pre-established canon without warping it.
For original fic... IDK. I understand the worries about getting it right, because that's so important that it's actually the focus of this whole slash!fail thing. But I don't understand why every story written has to tackle the same framing, issues and setting. That seems like unfairly limiting the possible scope of a story before it's even dreamed of. As long as its handled tastefully and carefully, isn't that what matters?
since your post is listed on linkspam's delicious links
I feel like I should just mention how amusing it is that they still haven't commented to tell me. I saw myself up there and had a confused moment the day after I posted this. Maybe I'll get the coveted "Warning: Derailing" tag in the DW post.
I picked you two because you really are wonderful writers, and there's so many non-slashers making the "slash = bad gay porn" leap that it was either that or start flailing incoherently. *g* I react badly to people complaining about things they don't know.
"oh Jesus, I have channeled the soul of bad Harlequin novels and it is awful. Let's go for a tasteful fade to black now"
For the record, I would pay good money to see you two write a Harlequin pastiche. Just so that's out there.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-02-08 03:30 am (UTC)Oi, geeze, that is exactly the post I'm not linking to in the main meta. I started to reply there, then put down the keyboard and backed away before I erupted into rage all over someone else's journal. (Other people were already doing it for me, much better than I could.) That post and the comments she left hit so many buttons I was close to incoherent.
And it's happening now, when slashers objecting to bisexual erasure, asexual erasure, to the gender binary implicit in much of the debate, etc. are being labelled as derailing. And when people say that things like paradox-dragon's post are derailing, and are issues that need to be put on hold for later...
This is where I go "bwuh?" and have to wonder if my idea of netiquette (or LJ-specific netiquette, at least) is completely warped. I always thought that individual posts were their own conversations, so to speak. So taking your tangential-but-interesting thoughts back to your own space was the exact opposite of derailing, since you're not interrupting someone else's convo. Everything that's going on is a web of link-hopping and discussion, but I've never considered it one my amorphous blob of conversation--especially since that sort of think is akin to yelling in the middle of a mob.
In the case of not-cisgendered-lesbian-or-gay-man erasure (let's face it, if someone isn't "mainstream" gay, they get ignored), it's important that the conversations happen, even if they're sparked off of something else. There's never a good time to put yourself forward to be noticed, and being told to sit back and wait for a turn is... yeah, rage button is a good term for it. Bad enough to get that from the heteronormative side ("just confused/curious"), but getting it from people who really should know better is too much.
I was told point-blank that until I decide whether I'm straight or lesbian, I'm not welcome. One jerk doesn't make an entire group, but that pretty well set my tone. :\ I have fandom, thankfully, which is more than supportive enough.
I don't know that tis is a problem in fanfic, where the characters have to follow canon at least a little, but I don't know what I would do about that if I went pro. Write historical fiction and fantasy novels about girls instead of modern-setting m/m stuff, I guess (original fiction, after all, is pretty much designed for exorcising all one's Mary Sue impulses).
I think that I've actually seen a few fics that took canonically presumed-straight characters and tried to make them fit into "gay culture" (which I still haven't seen defined). I remember laughing loudly and pressing the back button. It was so OOC I couldn't take it seriously. There's only so much that can be done within the confines of a pre-established canon without warping it.
For original fic... IDK. I understand the worries about getting it right, because that's so important that it's actually the focus of this whole slash!fail thing. But I don't understand why every story written has to tackle the same framing, issues and setting. That seems like unfairly limiting the possible scope of a story before it's even dreamed of. As long as its handled tastefully and carefully, isn't that what matters?
since your post is listed on linkspam's delicious links
I feel like I should just mention how amusing it is that they still haven't commented to tell me. I saw myself up there and had a confused moment the day after I posted this. Maybe I'll get the coveted "Warning: Derailing" tag in the DW post.
I picked you two because you really are wonderful writers, and there's so many non-slashers making the "slash = bad gay porn" leap that it was either that or start flailing incoherently. *g* I react badly to people complaining about things they don't know.
"oh Jesus, I have channeled the soul of bad Harlequin novels and it is awful. Let's go for a tasteful fade to black now"
For the record, I would pay good money to see you two write a Harlequin pastiche. Just so that's out there.